well, it's a government program. jesus annunciation of the jubilee is debt forgiveness for everything. >> john: you're exactly right. when i try to talk about this myself i'm to do it by my conservative christian friends jesus said the private individual should help the poor. the government shouldn't pick my pockets to help the poor. jesus didn't have democracy. we do. if jesus chose to vote to help the poor instead of bombing iraq, isn't that a government based on christian values, taking care of the less fortunate? >> i believe that our religious values can inform the way we advocate for different kinds of policies. dr. martin luther king jr. said your faith is the conscience of the politics. that's our conscience at work. but i'm always stunned at the kind of christians that talk to you, john, don't actually have read the bible. jesus said the rich sell all you have and give it to the poor poor. woe to all those who are rich. i feel he got this from his mother. his mother, when she's pregnant, she goes to elizabet